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6:15 am December 29, 2007
| Greysoule
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This is a subject that has always caused a great disturbance in the force. Star Wars… original episodes 4-6 vs the new 1-3 episodes.
A long time ago in a galaxy far away there were 3 great movies, then George Lucas came around and made Episodes 1-3 giving me great hope for what I thought of as one of the best series of all times.
Here are my favorites in order.
1 Return of the Empire
2 A New Hope
3 Return of the Jedi
I must say that I have seen the original 3 more times than any sane person should watch any movie. Then when the new ones came around I was really pumped up and ready for them. Opening day I waited in line a long while and was sorely disappointed with the Phantom Menace. Episode 2 came out and I hoped that the previous one was for story building… and felt even more distaste than I did for episode one. I have yet to this day seen episode 3. I shall never take that dark path.
The new ones I will never see again since I am to baised to give them another chance.
Since I have not seen all of them you can say my views are off, call me the great shit disturber of the ages. Certain parts of the original moving being visually rehashed to fit the changing views of what the Star Wars universe should be truly gripes my soul… The one that gets on my nerves the absolute worst is the Han Solo/Greedo encounter. Before it was changed the sceen was shown as Han blowing Greedo away under the table in ideal of a scumbag getting the better end before the other guy gets him. The newer version it shows Greedo and Han talking and Greedo pulling his blaster, firing first… and missing. Then Solo blows him away. Thus giving less of a dirty fighting scumball and more of a "fair" trader. There are other changes to the old movies I actually like, many of the cloud city background scenes for example. The ones that added flavor are the ones I really enjoyed the most.
To be fair I have to say there are to scenes I liked in the Phantom Menace. The Pod Race and the Lightsaber fight with Darth Maul. The two headed announcer was my particular favorite. Both were visually stunning and I would even compare the pod race to the Speeder Bike scenes in Endor. Darth Maul I had higher hopes for. Sure he was great fighter, but he simply can not live up to Vadar. No storyline to speak of, no character building, no force choking, or even general cowering in fear from the part of nearby Imperials.
The parts on the original 3 movies that keep me going back are the characters and their interaction. The dialog going back and forth is simply amazing. In the new movies it all feels scripted and almost as if all the characters are simply meant to go along with what is needed for the good of the party/movie. While for the times the originals were visually great, they don't compare to the later movies… for me that still is not enough.
All being said and done I feel as if George Lucas dropped trousers and took as crap on some of the best movies he ever made. Jar-Jar Binks needs to be hacked apart and given as sacrifice to the Sith Lords. Lastly many people say the storylines were all made long ago before any of the movies was made. I don't know if the long interval of a generation seperating the two trilogies or the new movies were made to apease special effect loving crowds almost as if they was designed for making all the games that came along look good is what makes things feel wrong, but I can not bring myself to like the new trilogy.
Flame on. Say it loud and say it proud. Say anything the hacks you off about the Star Wars series in general. Around different circles I have seen no end of arguments these movies can stir up.
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11:33 am December 29, 2007
| Brooks
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I, for one, think Jar Jar is the greatest character George Lucas ever came up with.
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retsam eht ma I woN .renrael a tub saw I uoy tfel I nehW.
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9:32 pm December 29, 2007
| Anconeus
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| Member | posts 30 | |
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I like to rationilize like this:
When Lucas made the original Trilogy, he had the grandiose ideas of the epic battles already in his head. However, the technolgy wasn't available to do such things. So, instead, he focused on the little things like character development. Now, many years later we're able to do all types of crazy things on the computer. So, this time around he focused on filling the entire screen with careening spacecraft, laser fire, and explosions (which are oddly loud and fiery in the vacuum of space…). Oh, and let's not forget cutesy characters for the kids of the people who fell in love with the originals… whom Lucas knew would spend their hard earned dollars on.
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11:56 am December 30, 2007
| Tyrion Alb
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You obviously watched the first two movies of the new trilogy through the lense of sentimentalism. Holding the original trilogy on a pedestal, which everyone who is now aged 27 to 37 does, will definitely give you bias.
I am a huge fan of the original trilogy. It is close and dear to my heart. However, the new trilogy is not a complete waste of film..err..pixels.
As far as the changes made to the original trilogy go, yes, most all of the changes annoyed me. Even the ones that really help sell an effect. That said, my kids won't mind the changes. They are growing up with the completed "saga". If you watch all 6 films from I to VI with all of the changes, and if you have never watched the original releases of IV-VI and thus are not "tainted" with sentimentalism, they flow together much more seamlessly than if you watch them with the originally released IV-VI.
Responding to your Darth Maul criticism:
1) The Sith were not in control. Sidious and Maul had to work in secret, behind the scenes or the Jedi surely would have just hacked them down.
2) Maul made the Trade Federation guys plenty nervous.
3) Maul couldn't live up to Vader. Ever. First, that is part of Sidious's dilemma. He can't find a decent apprentice. Second, why, story wise, would you want the disposable villain of Episode I to overshadow the allegedly most powerful Jedi/Sith ever in Anakin/Vader?
4) That duel at the end of E1 was truly epic. It was very satisfying watching Obi-Wan take him down. The defeat of Darth Maul by Obi-Wan was key to Ob-Wan's character development.
Responding to your dialogue and character development criticism:
1) The original trilogy is bad too. If you really want crisp dialogue, go watch a Kevin Smith movie. If you want character development, go watch the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings. I would NEVER characterize the dialog in the OT as "simply amazing". That really smacks of OT fanboyism.
Responding to Jar-Jar:
What hasn't already been said since 1999? Jar Jar is a tragic figure in episodes I-III. Go back and watch all three and his fall from grace.
It's Jar Jar's chance collision with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in the jungles of Naboo that inflicts his continued presence on the screen for the rest of The Phantom Menace. But by Clones, his role is reduced to that of a deferential stooge of the nefarious Palpatine, and in Sith he gets only a single line of dialogue, suggesting a certain balancing out of Jar Jar's irritating disturbance in the Force. More important, we are made to see how Jar Jar's apparently coincidental meeting with the Jedi needed to happen, since it is his misguided vote that allows Palpatine to take control of the Senate, leading to the death of the Republic. The clown becomes the villain, and balance is restored.
I found this once on the internet. It is the conclusion of an essay that someone wrote about his anger and depression and finally acceptance of the whole thing:
[quote]Acceptance: The Force is a nebulous, superficial plot device, not something to base a personal belief system on. I guess I will just have to realize I will never be able to “will” the remote control into my hand from across the living room. The Jedi are just as corrupt as the Sith. Anakin Skywalker is not the ultimate villain, just a whiney, pain-in-the-ass teenager. The dialogue in all six films is truly atrocious. You can drive the Executor through the plot holes. And George Lucas is a hack. A blind, stinking lucky hack that had one truly revolutionary concept and hit a grand slam home run with it. Then he slurped down the collective goodwill of tens of millions of devoted fans and spent the rest of his “directing” career coasting and lording over delirious sycophants who were either too blind or terrified to say “uh, George, you sure you want to go with that Gungan thing?” He became the evil emperor and totalitarian despot he was trying to warn us all about. But for all that, I am fine. I am actually OK now. 6 years of fretting, waiting, hoping, spending, over-spending and spending some more is all over. I am ready to join the human race. Star Wars no longer defines me as a person. My active fantasy life has now been supplanted by an actual life. I choose now to live in the real world and try to find my own adventures in a galaxy right here. Star Wars is now just a couple of fun hours at the movies.
My unabashed love for Star Wars is dead. I will remember my relationship fondly, but now it is time to move on. As a Star Wars grief survivor, I hope my spiritual journey can help others with the healing process. Star Wars is only a movie. That’s it. It isn’t a lifestyle or a way to achieve enlightenment. It is a vehicle for having silly, uncomplicated, check-your-brains-and-maturity-at-the-door fun. Put away the Jedi robes and the C-3PO Burger King Collectors Glasses, grab a big, bucket of popcorn and enjoy the films as they were intended; harmless, meaningless, escapist fun. Once Jar Jar has no meaning to you, you can sit back and laugh at his antics. Let go. Let Lucas. May the Force be With You![/quote]
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7:15 am December 31, 2007
| DaCoop
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I can't believe that you actually said "When Lucas made the original Trilogy, he had the grandiose ideas of the epic battles already in his head. However, the technolgy wasn’t available to do such things. So, instead, he focused on the little things like character development." Character developement is the key to any great story, novel, RPG, or movie. Without a real understanding of a character's background and motivations there is no connection to the plot or feeling of loss when a central character is lost. For myself, there is no real feeling in a story if there is no audience interconnection with the characters the story is built around. This is where I belive episodes I-III failed and one thing that CGI can never make up for.
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12:27 pm December 31, 2007
| Brasidas
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| Member | posts 36 | |
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Character developement is the key to any great story, novel, RPG, or movie.
I can't believe you missed the sarcasm in Anconeus' post. :P
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Show yourself a brave man, as a Spartiate should; and do you, allies, follow him like men, and remember that zeal, honor, and obedience mark the good soldier.
Thucydides 5.9.9
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3:32 pm December 31, 2007
| BigE
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Dear YODA! We are not talking about Shakespeare here, it's freaking STAR WARS! Besides missing the SARCASM, I think we missed the last freighter out of MOS EISLEY! The sacred trilogy were based on adventure shows like the old Saturday morning serials (Also much of New Hope was blatantly stolen from the film Hidden Fortress). The current three movies were made just like the originals; to appeal to young adults and kids of this generation. Things have changed boys. Gone are he days of cool cartoons for kids. Now if it is not fart jokes, there is some crazy creature (such as Jar Jar) doing something stupid.
I love all the Star Wars movies. Was I disappointed in this last batch?
My answer is Luke Skywalkerish "There is still good in them. I can FEEL it"
Try this out read ANY Timothy Zahn Star Wars novel and then watch any of Episodes I, II or III. If you don't like the movie better than that Zahn dribble, hang up your lightsaber and turn to the dark side.
I am always intrigued by the amount of criticism Episode I takes (Jar Jar withstanding). Unless I'm mistaken I seem to remember a large group of us standing outside after Episode I and every last one of us loving it (except Jar jar). Funny now how some people have changed their opinions. Perhaps A long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far, Far Away… is gone forever for some older fans. Myself, I will watch any Star Wars that comes down the pipe (hell I just watched that damn wookie xmas tripe on Youtube). The new movies get a bum rap for bad acting and crappy story-line. The Original trilogy had it's share: Carrie Fisher high as a freaking kite is just as bad an actor os Jake Lloyd. Mark Hamel was just as cardboard as Hayden Christanson. As a wise man once said "It all depends greatly on a certain point of view".
We remember the greatness that was Star Wars from out childhoods. It will never be bad in our eyes. The truth be told the new movies are about on par with A new Hope and Jedi (or as Berry says RETURN). They all lack greatly in depth and dialogue not to mention true character development of everyone except Luke ( in a half-assed way). They are are also ALL great movies, because they entertain, Oscar worthy? NO! But look at what is. MY LEFT FOOT comes to mind. Watching Daniel Day Lewis tard it up in front of a Soccer goal does not hold a candle to "I AM YOUR FATHER!" DUN DUN DUUUUN.
For My money here is my list in order of greatness
Episode V
Episode I (hard to beat that Pod Race and Duel of Fates)
Episode IV
Episode VI
Episode II
Episode III
But what do I know, I'm just a simple gamer trying to make his way in the universe…
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Hacking My Way to Glory and Riches
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5:46 pm December 31, 2007
| Anconeus
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Sorry that you missed the sarcasm there, DaCoop. So in an effort to make it (sarcasm)easier to pick out, I will use asteriks (*) to signify when I'm being sarcastic… Dammit, I forgot to type an asterik before I starting typing!!! Now this post will rip a hole in the sarcasm/serious continuum. What have I done?!!?!? ;)
I'll admit that, when I have cable and ANY one of the 6 episodes is on, I immediately stop clicking(unless there are boobie elsewhere, but fetishes aside)and go into a catatonic state and start parroting out every single line that I can. Hell, one time, Brasidas and I rewound Episode III over and over and over to count how many "Breeeets" Obi Wan's annoying lizard makes during the course of those scenes. I think last count was 47…
Anyhoo, I think it truely is a matter of taste and perspective. I kind of don't see all 6 episodes as one long story, but 2 trilogies connected together. Episodes IV, V, and VI focused more on a few characters within an interglactic war, while Episodes I,II, and III were more focused on the intergalactic war and a few characters within it.
But, then again these are the hypoxic ramblings of someone who is living 5,800 ft above see level. :)
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9:26 pm December 31, 2007
| Brasidas
| | Florissant, MO | |
| Member | posts 36 | |
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Show yourself a brave man, as a Spartiate should; and do you, allies, follow him like men, and remember that zeal, honor, and obedience mark the good soldier.
Thucydides 5.9.9
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11:01 pm January 1, 2008
| BigE
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HYPOXIC!
When did we start using a vocabulary on this sight!
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Hacking My Way to Glory and Riches
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4:06 pm January 2, 2008
| Anconeus
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I also used these words: continuum, fetishes, and catatonic. ;)
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4:37 pm January 2, 2008
| BigE
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Star Trek, Shadow Run, What I am most of the freaking time now a days. They don't count
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Hacking My Way to Glory and Riches
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8:38 pm January 2, 2008
| Anconeus
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QUOTE (BigE @ 2008-01-02) Star Trek, Shadow Run, What I am most of the freaking time now a days. They don't count
Bummer…. not that you're in a catatonic state, but I can't believe that those words don't count. ;)
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